Realize I'm late to the party, but if you look at 1970s All Decade cornerbacks, you don't see Mel Blount, Lem Barney, Ken Riley, etc.
But you do see one of the original "shutdown CBs," Louis Wright - who has never gotten #PFHOF respect or traction merely because he shut down the opposing WR without gaudy INT stats. Also because the Broncos were short-sighted in raising awareness of legit all-time greats whose careers were primarily before Pat Bowlen.
Shutdown cornerback you say? Huge reason SBXII was close until late - despite 8 Denver turnovers. Cowboys resorted to gadget plays to seal the victory after a final turnover - because Drew Pearson was shut out until a random 4th-quarter, 13-yard catch.
Also validating this is how the 1977 #Broncos (and Orange Crush defense) was the only Super Bowl team of the first 74 (37 SBs) with not even one Hall of Famer - until Randy Gradishar's 35-year wait ended last month.
If you ask historians specific to 1960s/1970s cornerbacks on the outside looking in, Wright is close to or at the top of the list.
Ummm … Frank Minnifield and Hanford Dixon — both better than Hayes or Lewis. As a former college cornerback myself, and a former college and high school DB coach, I am frustrated with how HoF voters evaluate cornerback play. It is NOT about “statistics” like interceptions. If you have a lot of interceptions, 1 or 2 things are true (generally) — the offense isn’t afraid to throw at you and/or you’re playing a lot of zone coverages.
In 1987, Hanford Dixon was thrown at while in man coverage (which is mostly what the Browns did) SEVEN times THE WHOLE SEASON! That’s insane. That’s dominant. There is no way to accumulate stats that way but you are impacting the game dramatically because you are changing what the offense can do and limiting them.
The Browns had little pass rush and other than Clay Matthews, no other real difference makers on D. But Dixon and Minnifield each went to 4 Pro Bowls and were voted as the 2nd best CB tandem in NFL history (behind Hayes and Haynes, but I would quibble with that).
It is absolutely criminal that these guys don’t get considered, because in the mid to late 80s, they were dominant.
First, I must say I love the heart and soul of Browns fans. They stuck with it, recaptured their name and records. Browns and Raiders fans are resilient. Steven, the list was of semifinalists and finalists from last year in alphabetical order. Minnifield is a great story: Undersized college walk-on earns scholarship; signs with USFL and sues to move to NFL, reflecting his aggressive play as in-your-face cover corner. Not sure about your criminality call but Tony Grossi, then a selector, give Minnifield a push, but the corner was only on preliminary list four times, the last in 2017, and never made it “in the room” for discussion. You could have nominated him. Still can. Frank was impressive at only 5-9, 180 with his disruptive play. He was first team All-Pro in 1988 and second team in 87 and 89. He was second-team All-Decade and Pro Bowler four times (yawn). He is definitely In Hall of very, very good, but probably needed more than eight NFL seasons. Thanks for reading, responding.
I think it goes directly to my point: People don’t know how to evaluate cornerback play. When they use interceptions as their metric, they’re wrong. And of course, things like Pro Bowl and All Pro (upon which so much of the Hall voting is based), suffer from the same problem in how to evaluate corner play. Once again, if you only get thrown at 7x in an entire season, you aren’t getting “stats.” But you are dramatically impacting the game, and you are dominant as a result,
Current Cowboys corners Bland and Diggs are a good example. Splashy interceptions mask their coverage vulnerabilities, and they both get beat quite a bit. But they are on many “best of” lists. Because they get interceptions.
Career length is an issue, of course, but if you were dominant (think Gale Sayers) at your position for 5-ish years, you should be in. And obviously, elite corner play (at least the kind I think is elite), is generally limited to about 5-6 ish years because the twitchiness it takes to excel diminishes quickly. It’s why many corners get moved to safety as they age.
I watched with interest when Rod Woodson (a vastly overrated corner but excellent safety) noted that when he went to the Pro Bowl the first time, he learned how to play cornerback from Frank Minnifield.
I just find it fascinating that the guys who make up the best CB tandem of all time in either the 1 or 2 position don’t even get considered. It’s ridiculous.
I love Clay Matthews, and he was very good for a very long time. Is that enough? I don’t know. But in my educated opinion, Dixon and Minnifield deserve it more than he does.
If Albert Lewis and Lester Hayes are getting “in the room,” so should Minnifield and Dixon, who were each better/more dominant players at their position, even though their career length might have been slightly shorter.
Steven. Hard to get him in the room if he is nominated only four times -- by anybody -- on prelim list. So get busy yourself or get others to help you. As for what is considered when selectors discuss players, don't assume you know ("upon which so much of the Hall voting is placed") . I share your curiosity/frustration trying to define what makes a HOFamer (very good for a long period of time, is that enough?). Many Gold Jackets fit that description. Others flashed for a short time. You named one, but there are many others, including RB Terrell Davis, center Dwight Stephenson and, this year, LB Patrick Willis. There is no single magic formula. I've been doing this 32 years and I cannot tell you why some guys get in and others do not. Right, wrong or otherwise, my criteria is a bit different than others. I've mentioned it often and it has less to do with stats and honors and more to do with "I want that guy on my team to kick your ass," which doesn't fit in a spreadsheet. I give extra credit to the Minnifields, the Steven Smith Sr.'s, the Megatrons, the Jack Tatums, the Rodney Harrisons. I think you get the picture. We aren't playing marbles here. Regardless of the evolving rules, this is a collision sport. If your pay attention it doesn't take long to spot the great ones.
And the reason I mention All Pro and Pro Bowl as being an important criteria is because those things are all mentioned as criteria. Tyler Huntley was a Pro Bowler, for crying out loud.
Realize I'm late to the party, but if you look at 1970s All Decade cornerbacks, you don't see Mel Blount, Lem Barney, Ken Riley, etc.
But you do see one of the original "shutdown CBs," Louis Wright - who has never gotten #PFHOF respect or traction merely because he shut down the opposing WR without gaudy INT stats. Also because the Broncos were short-sighted in raising awareness of legit all-time greats whose careers were primarily before Pat Bowlen.
Shutdown cornerback you say? Huge reason SBXII was close until late - despite 8 Denver turnovers. Cowboys resorted to gadget plays to seal the victory after a final turnover - because Drew Pearson was shut out until a random 4th-quarter, 13-yard catch.
Also validating this is how the 1977 #Broncos (and Orange Crush defense) was the only Super Bowl team of the first 74 (37 SBs) with not even one Hall of Famer - until Randy Gradishar's 35-year wait ended last month.
If you ask historians specific to 1960s/1970s cornerbacks on the outside looking in, Wright is close to or at the top of the list.
Something to think about.
Ummm … Frank Minnifield and Hanford Dixon — both better than Hayes or Lewis. As a former college cornerback myself, and a former college and high school DB coach, I am frustrated with how HoF voters evaluate cornerback play. It is NOT about “statistics” like interceptions. If you have a lot of interceptions, 1 or 2 things are true (generally) — the offense isn’t afraid to throw at you and/or you’re playing a lot of zone coverages.
In 1987, Hanford Dixon was thrown at while in man coverage (which is mostly what the Browns did) SEVEN times THE WHOLE SEASON! That’s insane. That’s dominant. There is no way to accumulate stats that way but you are impacting the game dramatically because you are changing what the offense can do and limiting them.
The Browns had little pass rush and other than Clay Matthews, no other real difference makers on D. But Dixon and Minnifield each went to 4 Pro Bowls and were voted as the 2nd best CB tandem in NFL history (behind Hayes and Haynes, but I would quibble with that).
It is absolutely criminal that these guys don’t get considered, because in the mid to late 80s, they were dominant.
First, I must say I love the heart and soul of Browns fans. They stuck with it, recaptured their name and records. Browns and Raiders fans are resilient. Steven, the list was of semifinalists and finalists from last year in alphabetical order. Minnifield is a great story: Undersized college walk-on earns scholarship; signs with USFL and sues to move to NFL, reflecting his aggressive play as in-your-face cover corner. Not sure about your criminality call but Tony Grossi, then a selector, give Minnifield a push, but the corner was only on preliminary list four times, the last in 2017, and never made it “in the room” for discussion. You could have nominated him. Still can. Frank was impressive at only 5-9, 180 with his disruptive play. He was first team All-Pro in 1988 and second team in 87 and 89. He was second-team All-Decade and Pro Bowler four times (yawn). He is definitely In Hall of very, very good, but probably needed more than eight NFL seasons. Thanks for reading, responding.
Also, someone needs to let me in “that room.” I’ll die on this hill! 🤣
I think it goes directly to my point: People don’t know how to evaluate cornerback play. When they use interceptions as their metric, they’re wrong. And of course, things like Pro Bowl and All Pro (upon which so much of the Hall voting is based), suffer from the same problem in how to evaluate corner play. Once again, if you only get thrown at 7x in an entire season, you aren’t getting “stats.” But you are dramatically impacting the game, and you are dominant as a result,
Current Cowboys corners Bland and Diggs are a good example. Splashy interceptions mask their coverage vulnerabilities, and they both get beat quite a bit. But they are on many “best of” lists. Because they get interceptions.
Career length is an issue, of course, but if you were dominant (think Gale Sayers) at your position for 5-ish years, you should be in. And obviously, elite corner play (at least the kind I think is elite), is generally limited to about 5-6 ish years because the twitchiness it takes to excel diminishes quickly. It’s why many corners get moved to safety as they age.
I watched with interest when Rod Woodson (a vastly overrated corner but excellent safety) noted that when he went to the Pro Bowl the first time, he learned how to play cornerback from Frank Minnifield.
I just find it fascinating that the guys who make up the best CB tandem of all time in either the 1 or 2 position don’t even get considered. It’s ridiculous.
I love Clay Matthews, and he was very good for a very long time. Is that enough? I don’t know. But in my educated opinion, Dixon and Minnifield deserve it more than he does.
If Albert Lewis and Lester Hayes are getting “in the room,” so should Minnifield and Dixon, who were each better/more dominant players at their position, even though their career length might have been slightly shorter.
Steven. Hard to get him in the room if he is nominated only four times -- by anybody -- on prelim list. So get busy yourself or get others to help you. As for what is considered when selectors discuss players, don't assume you know ("upon which so much of the Hall voting is placed") . I share your curiosity/frustration trying to define what makes a HOFamer (very good for a long period of time, is that enough?). Many Gold Jackets fit that description. Others flashed for a short time. You named one, but there are many others, including RB Terrell Davis, center Dwight Stephenson and, this year, LB Patrick Willis. There is no single magic formula. I've been doing this 32 years and I cannot tell you why some guys get in and others do not. Right, wrong or otherwise, my criteria is a bit different than others. I've mentioned it often and it has less to do with stats and honors and more to do with "I want that guy on my team to kick your ass," which doesn't fit in a spreadsheet. I give extra credit to the Minnifields, the Steven Smith Sr.'s, the Megatrons, the Jack Tatums, the Rodney Harrisons. I think you get the picture. We aren't playing marbles here. Regardless of the evolving rules, this is a collision sport. If your pay attention it doesn't take long to spot the great ones.
Totally agree. Love your criteria! 😂
And the reason I mention All Pro and Pro Bowl as being an important criteria is because those things are all mentioned as criteria. Tyler Huntley was a Pro Bowler, for crying out loud.